Paul Thomas is an associate professor of education at Furman University and author of numerous books, including Ignoring Poverty in the U.S.: The Corporate Takeover of Public Education. He also hosts the blog "The Becoming Radical: A Place for a Pedagogy of Kindness." They discuss grit, slack, and the effects of poverty on learning. The conversation turns to examine the feasibility of education reform absent a better social safety net. In the final segment, Patrick and Paul consider potential solutions to childhood poverty, including a guaranteed minimum income and wraparound social services.