Dr. Wes Jackson is the founder and director of The Land Institute, a nonprofit dedicated to rethinking agricultural practice and creating new farming systems which result in conservation and ecosystem resilience. Wes's conversation begins with soil and rapidly expands to address how we make choices about the massively complex and intertwined systems we live within--there is definitely a resonance between Wes Jackson, Timothy Morton, and David Korten. The problem of scientific fundamentalism also arises and Wes presents a thorough critique of many ideas put forth by Robert Zubrin and Max More (would Colin Camerer fall into that category? You tell us). Hubris, creativity, limits, and the fallacy of unlimited growth are all major themes as well.