We spoke with Ken Butigan about the stages of social transformation, where the US fits in and what the tasks are during this stage. You may be surprised to find out how close we are. Butigan is director of Pace e Bene, a nonprofit organization fostering nonviolent change through education, community and action. He also teaches peace studies at DePaul University and Loyola University in Chicago. He has been involved in numerous ‘people powered’ movements for thirty years. For more information, visit ClearingtheFOGRadio.org.