We never say this, but EVERY PASTOR needs this episode! Jeff and Jonny talk with Bill Thrall, a pastor to pastor for decades, about how to pastor and lead in the most healthy way possible. Essentially they discuss how to survive the wounds of ministry, but trusting God and a few others, with YOU. Ministry is faith is ultimately relational, not behavioral. Bill teaches us how to survive the wounds of ministry by trusting Jesus with not just our own sins, but the sins of others upon us. This is a very important episode.